A DVD video of this whole ride is available
As you can see on the map, we will ride
"The Long Way Up"on a 1300-mile dirt bike ride that begins in the Malad Range of southern Idaho and ends in the Selkirk Mountains near the Canadian border. The ride is approximately 5% single track trail, 15% double track, 70% dirt road and 10% pavement. Though street legal dirt bikes are recommended the ride has been completed on every type of knobby-shod motorcycle imaginable as well as a few that are not.
Most of the week normally taken to ride up thru Idaho on this trail is spent in wilderness areas far from the nearest town including the Frank Church, the largest designated wilderness in the lower 48 states. Cell phones are useless much of the way. Water, food, emergency supplies and fuel must be carried and bikes and riders must be capable of a 200+ mile range. Radios, satellite phones or an emergency beacon are prudent insurance in the event of emergency as you are often very far from assistance. The Tour of Idaho (as it's really called) is at least as much of a wilderness adventure as it is a dirt bike ride.
The trail encompasses extremes of elevation (1,486' at Lowell to 9,613' at Copper Lake) and temperature. The variety of plants, animals and geological features found along the way is nothing short of amazing.
The trail is generally passable by July 4th and remains ridable through early October during most years. There is a distinct possibility of extreme heat, rain or snow along the route during the entire riding season.
Here is a picture of part of the trail which I
stole off of the website
Me and GasPipe have ridden in Idaho and made a pact to go back. It has some of the most beautiful riding I have ever done.
In addition to the TID (Tour Of Idaho) we may venture up into Canada and then find an additional route back South.
And as usual----not much of a plan.
No Mileage goals, No destination goals, No time
constraints--we'll wander as we please on the
I apologize to Ewan McGregor and Charley
Boorman of "Long Way Round" and "Long Way Down" fame.............accomplished
However as I see it, the only difference between us and the "Long Way Round" guys, is millions of dollars, and good looks.
However---we will be doing things different.
There will be no support team or backup.
I will be filming it with a Big Lots budget helmet cam instead of a $65,000 HD setup.
I expect to sell about 7 DVD's from this project instead of 7,000,000.
This should pay for having to replace all our smelly socks after the ride.
Mark Sampson--2006 Husqvarna TE610
Tim Rhoads---Honda XR650R
"The GasPipe (stovepipe)"
Was a No--Show
We would start at Jenkins Hollow-----and ride South on the trail to the border of Utah where the trails turns North
Here me and Tim are at Jenkins Holllow the official start of the trail.
This lead us to a designated ATV trail for a few miles and finally came to a nice primitive campground and outhouse.
The Weather couldn't have been more perfect as we soaked up the beautiful Idaho scenery.
Can you find Tim in the picture below---he's in there !!!!!!
I think there was an easier way to avoid this----but
in the end it was fun and we made it.
Tim and his bike are in the bushes---can you see him ????
We road for a mile on single track on a very narrow ledge that you did not want to slip off of.
The best scenario is it would be almost impossible to retreive your bike.
Tims wheel slipped on the narrow track and than god the heavy brush caught him and his bike.
It was impossible for Time to lift the bike up where it was and he had to wait for me to come back.
He didn't show up at a turn and I knew he was in trouble---thing was I knew I had to walk back.....if I rode my bike
there would be no-way to turn the bike around.....I think you can see why in the pictures. I walked about 1/3 of a mile back to him
and helped him get the bike uprighted------no damage to Tim or the bike.
We were both exhausted and I carried his helmet, backpack and other stuff while he rode out of the Darien Gap !!!!!
This trail on top of the mountain ridge leading
to Oxford peak was one of the most spectacular of the ride.
There were some very long, steep clmbs with loose rock, shale and dirt.
We had to turn around at this point-----I
never got up this hill.........but worse yet Tim was completely exhausted.
Tim maintains to this day it was his lack of physical stamina---I maintain it was the altitude that got him.
Just walking a hundred feet would have you on the ground panting and we were struggling on these hills.
Martin Hackworth----a veteran of this trail
told us on the first day we would need bikes like these guys were riding
to ride this short 3 mile section.
We didn't listen-------oh we listened--just didn't do it.
This is the only place we turned back on the whole ride--but we only missed about 3 miles of the trail.
We knew of the hard trail ahead and these
guys said they couldn't climb it either !!
That made us feel a lot better.
These nice people here showed us how to backtrack
a little and get off the mountain and down into the basin..super nice people
I think these guys were looking for a race---I
quit that about 18 years ago.
Man I wish I had bikes like they had when I was their age,
I would have been the terror of the neighborhood.
I think I just sat here for a very long time---don't
know why ??
Me and Tim were always in awe at the lush heavily irrigated valleys.
Irrigation is a major part of farming in Idah--and water a precious commodity.
We blew into the town of Downey for gas and lunch and had fun with the local Dog.
We blew out of Downey as daylight was drifting away.
We climbed a very steep dirt climb that was
very rough and detiorated and landed up on Sedgewick Peak.
My Husqvarna has never even hinted at overheating---never--not even Mexico or Baja could overheat my Husky.
We had been clawing our way over tough uphills in first and second gear for a half hour to get here.
When I shut off my motor it was making a gurgling noise---obviously a little hot.
I could either coast down the mountain and cool it off real quick or just let her sit---in just a minute it was OK.
The ride over to Baldy Mountain, Windy Pass and Twin Knobs was much easier---and a beautiful ride.
We skirted Mount Moh and as the sun set we eased into Lava Idaho
We entered the busy town of Lava and I cruised
thru town looking for lodging.
There was none--it was a very touristy town and everything was full up----a major river sport town with hot tubs
and hot places to hang out. Many girls were walking the streets in tiny bikinis and a local deputy tried to coax us to the local
natural hot tubs to wash off the trail dust-----sounded like a place to avoid in such a busy town. It was too much for me....
all the traffic and people.........I wanted out.........except where was Tim......he was just right behind me ????
Poor ole' Tim--he was already bushed----and
had a stinkin' flat tire.
He used a tree stump for a center stand and we put in a new tube.
A very nice Local Bannock county deputy stopped by with words of encouragement.
Tim asked----"What's a guy have to do to get arrested" ??? And have a nice warm bed.
The officer smiled and said he didn't have time to arrest us---didn't want the hassle and paperwork.
So we had to go to Pocatello in the dark---with my 250 watt HID headlight pointing the way.
Tim stuck to me like glue as neither his tailight nor headlight were much more than a "Candle In A Mason Jay"
A quote of a good friend of mine---Mr. GasPipe
Pocatello To Arco
Breakfast in Pocatello, Idaho
This super nice couple were very interested
in what we were doing and we had a nice time with them.
They are both very active people and bike riders---and the lady rode a bicycle 100 miles the day before !!!
The best part is they invited us the complete use of their full shop for whatever we needed.
That is so cool to run into nice people like this---If we had needed an oil change or needed to weld something up
that offer would have come in mighty handy.
We also found out here that Martin Hackworth http://motorcyclejazz.com---the man responsible for the navigation on this ride
worked across the street from this restaurant.
We now were out of the mountains and rode
a lonely dirt road for I bet 35 miles across the desert.
I love open terrain like this---the sand wasn't deep enough to cause any issues and we could ride as fast as we dared.
The butte off in the distance is Big Butte---the one barely visible to the right of it is Big Southern Butte.
There was the remnants of an old building here with pipes and what appeared to be gas burners and all the old lava rock.
I haven't a clue what was here once upon a time ????
It was about 73 degrees and perfect riding out.
We rode fast and I watched the placement of
my foot closest to the sage brush so it didn't grab my foot.
It was so dry---but the sage brush was in full bloom.
I'm here to tell you I've seen some beautiful things---but a desert in full bloom is my favorite.
Big Butte loomed ahead---it rises 2,500 ft.
above the surrounding land.
I just joked to Tim about riding to the top of it---knowing that there probably was no way.
We rode around the left (West) side of it and found a narrow, steep rode going to the top.
One of the highlights of our ride.
If you need a new desktop picture on your computer---drop me an e-mail and I'll get you the full size of this one.
On the way up I had my only tip-over............a
1 mph tipover which drove a buried sharp rock right thru my mangnesium
engine case. I rode about 2 miles not knowing it was leaking---but lost very little oil.
JB Weld Quick took care of the hole in less
than 1/2 hr.
I busted another hole in this same case near Marguarichi, Mexico and did the same repair----they both are still holding.
We spent a lot of time up here just relaxing
and staring---not saying much of anything to each other.
Man it would have been neat to camp up there !!!!
We never met a soul the whole day in the desert---it was so quiet up here and very little wind--crap...I want to go back !!!
Getting close to the town of Arco we encountered
civilization and more beautiful irrigated farm land.
Such a contrast next to the dry mountains and desert. Seemed alfalfa was the crop of choice
and the locals said it was bringing a premium price and they shipped it all over the country.
I forgot these guys names one second after
they told it to me-----but will never forget them.
I'm not a hunter--never have been---but these guys were, and I was absolutely mesmorized by their tales of hunting in the area
and how the wolves (protected species) were killing everything---mainly the elk--it's a sad situation up there.
Looking up at the mountain in Arco was the
most amazing thing.
Seems about 1941 the high school graduating class wrote their year on the mountain side,
and the tradition has continued to this day---it was amazing---some of the letteres had to be 20 or 25 ft. tall.
The best looking grafitti I ever saw.
Stay here in Arco--you'll be glad you did.
Arco To Challis
I was told I would pass a submarine while
leaving the town of Arco---yeh---what have you been smokin' ?????
A real nuclear sub---also another piece of interesting info---Arco was the first town to be powered by atomic energy
and this happened in the mid 1950's.
So here is the sail of a submarine, protruding
out of the ground. It's the conning tower of the decommissioned submarine, the
USS Hawkbill. Local leaders
arranged to have it delivered here after the sub was decommissioned in 2001. And no, the rest of the sub is not buried underground,
hell----- an experienced traveler like myself wasn't falling for that--as the locals at the Pickle cafe tried to spoof me into believing !!!.
You think I'm stupid ??-----errrr....don't answer that !!
So why a submarine sail in the middle of the
desert? It all makes sense, when you realize that Arco (and the nearby nuclear
testing labs) helped
make naval nuclear power a reality. Since the cold war years, some 40,000 sailors have been trained in nuclear operations, at nearby prototype power plants.
It was July 17, 1955, when Arco first received
its power from a nearby nuclear reactor. The event only lasted a couple of hours.
This event electrified the town in more ways than one.
Arco, Idaho----popultaion 1,023
And before leaving Arco--be sure and have breakfast at Pickles place.
We blew out of town to the Northeast, just
East of Arco Peak.
Then North near Braithwaite canyon and over Beaverland Pass.
This ride consisted of about 20 gates to open
I always respect the ranchers and their gates and fences.
Riding thru the very deep canyon walls of Larkspur canyon was awesome.
In this canyon was some luch forest and a
beautiful creek where we stopped and
wished this was a campspot---it was too early to camp.
It was very cool---I way cozy comfy---but kept my heated grips on high most of the morning.
Pass Creek summit was just out of the canyon as we headed for the much talked about
Massacre Mountain loop.
We didn't take the Massacre Mountain Loop----we
had the time--it just wouldn't have been smart.
We were both in aggreement---the 17 mile Massacre mountain loop is brutal and takes a good
rider on a lighter bike about 2 1/2 hrs.--big rocks and a steep rocky climb of
about 1,500 ft. on a single track trail--you lose momentum and you go back down. The highest point of this ride is on
that loop---I have nothing to prove.
We would have risked bike damage, and injury taking this loop far from civilization.
The next 4 or 5 pictures led us to a side
loop of about 20 miles bothways.
It was so worth the time. This dirt road dead ended right below
Leatherman, Donaldson and Breitenbach Peaks---all over 12,000 ft.
We had lunch here---some trail mix and "No
Mans Land" beef jerky......the choice of adventure riders.
So nasty the bears wouldn't eat it. A thick Pine forest was to our backs in this picture and we could see
where bears had been rubbing on the trees.
We had some great fun with the video camera here---having a bit of a spoof of Charley Boorman and Ewan McGreggor
(famous expert world travelers).
The conversation went something like this.....................
Big Dog--"Hell, anybody can ride the long way round or down----but it's a whole different thing riding up"
The Breeze......."yep (very long pause), your so right BigDog......so so right"
BigDog....."Heck---the road of bones was childs play compared to this ride"
"Hell---they'd a been better off with a couple wore out KLR's"
And the bullcrap went on and on with us having a very hard time keeping a straight face.
Down the mountains thru Leaton Gulch brought us to the nice town of Challis where Gas, Food and Lodging is available.
Our motel had an onsight restaurant that was
handy---and the nice young lady below fed us till we were full.
Said she was small town girl and would never be happy in the big city.
We blew out of Challis after a hearty breakfast up Challis Creek Rd. and into the mountains going over Morgan Creek Summit at over 7,000 ft.
I was lacking seeing 2 things in this world---both
would get satisfied today.
First a guy living in this shanty on this goat ranch---I wished I had talked to him.
I actually didn't seen the guy milking the goat untill I had already taken the picture.
The original mobile home !!! Looks like he had everything he needed.
A roof over his head, a warm bed, plenty to eat---and plenty of goats milk !!!
This landscape just blows me away----we rode
along the Salmon river for miles and miles toward the town of Shoup,
or what was left of it.
I had a frend with some inside info about
getting gas here----said they might have gas---might have run out--you take
And oh yeah-------they're closed on Wednesday---good thing it was tuesday.
I say the pumps and thought cool---a couple of pumps still standing---I never dreamed they were in working order.
I was just astounded that we got our gas out of them---gravity feed you know !!!!
Shoup use to be a busy gold mining community of over 3,000 people. Now the Shoup store is all that's left and the population is 2----sometimes.
OK ----this is how it works--------you first
start off with the glass full of fuel all the way up to the zero mark.
You let mother nature gravity feed the gas into your tank. When full you look up at the gallon marks and you can plainly see
how much gas you took, albeit not to the hundreth of a gallon--kind of a guess. She said we took almost 4 gallons and
I told here to charge us for 4 as I didn't want to short her-------$4.75 a gallon and glad to get it.
We had a ball here and she fixed us a nice sandwich out of the deli.
She started to hand pump the gas back up to
the full mark when I asked her if I could do that.
I'm sure she had tired of doing it-----and was glad to let me do it. I really don't think she knew how much that this
just made my day. The handle on the side pump gas up into the glass and pumped on both the push and pull.
It did this very fast and it pumps it inot the top of the glass. In the picture below look at the gas flowing in
the top as I pumped it. I'd a paid extra for her letting me do the pumping.
Don't bet on gas here---you might get some you might not----if you don't, you might had to camp and wait
for her to get some as you may not make it to next gas on "The Long Way Up".
If you can't get gas here---just go up the road a little bit and go East about 10 miles to Northfork--it's rumored they have gas !!
I think this is Painted Rocks state recreation area---we were on a barely used one lane dirt road and there she was.
This sign here is going to play into our adventure
Big Time !!!
Cause I don't pay any attention to signs---never have never will--don't like them.
If it was up to me there wouldn't be any--be against the law.
Fire---smire---I don't see no smoke ?????????
What you lookin' at ?????
OK--relax---quit flippin thru the pictures before they even load---you know who you are----shame !!!!
We had talked to a few people and heard the
Magruder was closed--not sure why--then found out it was a fire thing.
To route around this was going to be very huge--like 250 mile pavement huge-------I soldiered on.
One guy told me the danger was over and they just hadn't removed the signs and barriers---with this info
I rode on.
I motored right passed a blockade blocking
further travel on the Magruder Corrider---it's just something I do--can't help
I never thought much of it and was hoping we could get thru the fire danger areas---found later that Tim wasn't really keen about this...
he may have been ticked off---don't know---but later maybe after he calmed down he just said he was keen on that.
We ran into these very nice folks---there were forest fire fighters and blocked the road with their big diesal truck and said we'd have
to go back. We just chatted awhile and they were so nice and Tim finally mentioned we were very low on fuel and couldn't go back.
This shed a totally new light on the situation and the nice girl radioed ahead and finally let us by and told us a few miles down the
Corridor someone would escort us thru the danger area---man was I relieved.
So on we go for several miles.
Then we run into this very nice girl----she
was a fire fighter and EMT.
She would escort us a few miles thru the danger area---with was nearing being opened up anyway.
She was so nice and we had a long chat about what we were doing and where we were going.
She had a sincere interest in doing what we were doing and I pointed her towards some nice bikes that might suit her
and my website-----I'm sure she'll be reading this--------Hi----can't remeber your name----can't remember my name--oh well !!!
She lives in Elk City (where we are going) and we hoped to see her there and find out more about the area.
We ran for miles thru the burned area and
saw afew smoulders---but no fire.
My friend Martin had rode thru here 2 days before me and got thru under the same circumstances I did---but there was actually some fire still going on.
We blew into Elk City like 2 old coots off
the dusty trail.
The Reno club fed us untill we were full---need old time bar and grill.
The Elk City Hotel was across the street and
had one room left for us-------the Tajmahal I called it.
What you are seeing here is about all there is in Elk City---my kind of town--with at least one country girl living there.
If the street had been dirt---it would have looked like 1898.
We sadly leave Elk City in the rain and today
was to be one of the most spectacular scenery days of our whole ride--even tho
it rained all day.
We rode North for miles on a dirt road in very dense forest with many obstacles to ride around, over or under.
Then the trail turned into a pretty tough ATV trail in which nothing wider than an ATV could have gotten thru.
It was much worse than the picture below and we sqeezed between I bet 300 narrow spots where somebody had thankfully cut a tree out
so we could get through. It was very fun riding--but I had this lump in my throat cause I knew that if we encountered just one new fallen tree
we would have to go back and do a major road re-route. It was a hoot--even in the rain.
The rain, forest and mist made for some spectacular scenery.
The next few pictures are the Selway river and falls.
A cafe in Lowell where we ate and got gas--although
Tim said I had plenty !!!.
Today we had to make a big decision----to get to Wallace you have to have 306 miles of fuel.
If your lucky and the Lowell gas station is open in Lowell (she opens whenever she feels like it----or doesn't) you have to
have enough fuel to ride some 245 miles---that would mean we would have to be able to suck every drop of gas out of our tanks,
we could never get lost, we could never do any side loops, we couldn't tump over and lose a drop of fuel and we would have
to ride easy and get good gas mileage----way too many ifs--not a smart idea. Some riders have bought a small gas can here
in Lowell and carried the gas till they needed it------then dropped the gas can and rode on into Wallace.
I do believe we are at the lowest elevation here on the whole ride.
The story behind this sign on the gas pump
is a good one.
4 crotch rockets came in here and drove off ------$67.50 worth of fuel.
The police caught them some 100 miles away and the guys wanted to pay over the phone with a credit card.
The gal at the station was pissed and wanted them to suffer----she told them she would not take the credit card over the phone
as they would have to come back to sign the credit card bill-------I thought this was hilarious.
So they had to ride back 100 miles--pay for the previous stolen gas---fill up again and ride back the way they came.
I don't know if she pressed charges or not--didn't matter--those guys suffered enough I thought.
She just turned the pumps on for us---thought we were to old to run I guess.
Just a little out of town the traditional
Tour Of Idaho trail goes thru a very tough section called "The Pete King
It was closed just a few days before we got there----you can read the sign why.
A good thing---me and Time may have not survived the Pete King Trail.
We then had to backtrack about 4 miles to the highway and we found another way up to "The Lolo Motorway"
and more spectacular riding.
The Lolo Motorway was heaven on earth.
Remember it's still raining and sometimes the fog made you ride very slow and look straight down at the road as you couldn't see very far at all
and there were many places where you could have rode right off the mountain and dropped a few hundred feet.
Somewhere along in here we met some forest
service people in a truck. I stopped them to chat.
There was a girl driving and a guy in the passenger seat. Remember it's pouring down rain.
I jokingly asked the girl driving if we looked tough or stupid ????
She give me the high sign and a tough macho look (with a grin) and said "yeh you guys are tough--real tough"
My chest swelled up as the guy in the passenger seat put up his hand like a kid in school wanting to be called upon.
He gave me this really awkward look still with his hand up in the air----and shyly said "I have to go with the stupid"
I guess I had to see his point---being in a warm dry truck with a pretty girl.
But heck I was riding the ride of my life---in the rain--what could be better than that.
We all laughed and went our seperate ways-----when
Tim said "Man I'd a sure liked to soak up some of that heater in that truck"
OK----back to our gas dilemma-----about 150
miles of riding in the rain it was way obvious we weren't going to make Wallace
took a road down the mountain and East to a place called the Powell Ranger Station---and the Lochsa Lodge.
You almost always need a reservation-----thankfull I saw this situation coming and had phoned ahead from Lowell and got us a log cabin.
No phone, no TV, no alarm clock, no internet, no bathroom, no noise---just plenty of firewood for the woodstove.
All of our wet gear got a good drying out here. I got the best nights sleep of my entire life here.
Jim and Mary were from McCall I think and
rode a BMW 1200GS--they were a very happy couple.
I'll never forget their big smiles-----nice meeting you guys !! Jim was hell bent on riding the LoLo motorway that we just came off of.
We both advised him no too being he was on such a big bike riding 2-up with lots of gear.
I think he followed our tracks the next day as we rode back to the LoLo---and rode on toward Wallace.
I hope they made it alright.
We had dinner and breakfast here at the Lochsa Lodge----really nice place with great food.
It got pretty chilly that night---and we had
fired up the wood stove as soon as we got there.
It tooked me awhile to get the thermostat adjusted---it was 3/4 a turn open on the air damper--then open the windwow 1/2 way----perfect.
The Infamous Day 6
A day to remember for the both
We had to ride back the way we came to get
on the Lolo again----about 20 miles. It was like we never rode it going the
other way and now
the sun was out and it was nice and damp with no mud or dust. I didn't understand this sign---Tim said it meant there was a fire up ahead, maybe set by the forest service
so don't be calling them telling them about it as they already knew it.
We rode Northeast over Blackhead mountain,
then Toboggan hill, down to Toboggan creek, then up Hornet Point and Fly Hill
all at a little over 6,000 ft. We rode closer today as there was absolutely doesn't and enjoyed watching each other riding lines on the trail.
We stopped and taled to this nice fellow for
awhile--he was scouting around for the nearing hunting season.
His son in-law was ahead of them--but he let him go so he could just poke a long and look around----I can understand that.
Me and Tim started a very long climb up gospel
hill---I remember this climb well and when I got home I measured it on my topo
software----it was a 6 mile climb
up a jeep wide trail littered with baby head planted rocks with many water bars and washed out places to jump. My Husky is extremely stable in rough stuff
and at speed---I had her wound up in 3rd gear which is a pretty good clip with the Husky's wide ration transmission.
It was going up this hill that me and Tim
knew something was terribly wrong----we didn't stop and talk about it--but something
was terribly wrong
something was in the air that we couldn't put a finger on.
I topped gospel hill and was presented with
2 things---the view you see below----and a man---waiting for me at the top.
I think I've caught quick glimpes of this man before----yes......many times before.
Sometimes I've thought this man was following me---just a close distance away.
Said his name was Death .........and I became very realaxed.
He told me it was my time........and I was ready.
What I wasn't ready for was how I was going to die !!!!
We stared each other down as I walked toward him and he slowly backed up----I was surprised to see him trembling with sweat.
Not today sucker as I shoved him over the side.
I shook my head back to what I hoped was reality
and saw gasoline running out of my bike. My tank was busted I thought.
I almost threw the bike on it's side to prevent anymore fuel loss when I saw the gas line leaking and got it stopped.
My left foot was burning like hell----and a plume of white smoke billowing off my exhaust header. My boot and foot were soaked with gasoline.
Tim pulls up in a bit-----as he had been stopping checking his bike because he had been smelling gas all the way up gospel hill.
I sat down and pulled my boot and sock off--not fully reallizing...yet...... what almost happened 150 miles from civilization.
My foot was pretty red on top and for the next few miles I took off my boot a few times and tried to rinse out the gasoline.
After riding about 50 miles the pain was pretty intense and I just put my boot and socks in the river.
The next time I took my boot and sock off
the skin came off with it---------I was done.
I won't show any more pics of what this turned into---but it got much worse.
Time found these forest service guys at a
nearby Ranger station---one was an EMT and helped me out a lot.
But I needed to go to the hospital.
I got a ride to the hospital and this forest
service guy went off duty----donned all my riding gear except the gas boot and
my bike to the hospital 80 miles away in St. Mary's.
Here he goes on my trusty Husky with Tim in
pursuit--------then to add insult to injury.........
Tim tells me at the hospital that my Husky has never gone so fast.
Talk about beat a man when he's down !!!!!!!
It's about 13 days later as of this writing
and I'm back to riding.
I was very lucky to not have the thing get infected,
but was luckier to have not burned up alive.
In retrospect what I should have done the
first time I took my boot off---was to not put it back on---lesson learned.
We lacked one more days riding to get to Canada---maybe again someday !!!!